Comparing Suns’ roster changes to past seasons

How does the 24-25 Roster Stack up to recent iterations of the Phoenix Suns?

Rose Colored Glasses Season is here!

As of this writing, we are one month away from the Phoenix Suns first pre-season game against the Lakers. We are in the last few weeks of the off-season doldrums and this is the time of year where we really start to turn the page on last season and inject that sweet sweet hopium directly into our veins.

Since I know we’re craving any kind of Suns content to scratch that itch, that we’d dive into how the 2024-25 Roster matches up against two previous iterations of the Suns. Talley ho and read on.

The Method to this Madness

I chose the 2023-24 Suns that won 49 games and was swept by the Timberwolves in the first round. I chose this squad because when the season began, it felt like the front office had nailed it. Pundits all across the media landscape praised the Suns season and I heard the term “mid-prime veteran” for the first of thousands of times. That squad also lead us to the roster we have today.

I also chose the 2022-23 Suns that won 45 games and lost in 6 to the Denver Nuggets after the KD trade stripped of us of depth. I chose this season, because the Suns were fresh off a 64 win season, but the Mavericks series left us with legitimate questions about the roster, the coach, and if our window was still open going into that season.

Note: I purposefully used the rosters on opening night since both seasons had midseason trades that overlap with the next years roster.

I divided each roster into 3 tiers: Starters, Rotation, End of Bench as opposed to ranking each squad 1-15. I did not include 2 way players except for one exception. Let’s dive in.

Comparing this Roster to the 2023-24 Phoenix Suns

Starters

Comparing this year’s starters to last year is a pretty straightforward exercise. With 4 starters returning in Nurk, KD, Book, and Beal they are all a push. The one change is of course sending Grayson Allen to the bench in favor of Tyus Jones.

Now some will worry about getting smaller and while that’s a valid concern, we all know that the Suns’ Achilles heel was ridiculous turnovers. Tyus Jones was brought in to clean that issue up and Gerald Bourguet over at PHNX watched EVERY. SINGLE. SUNS. TURNOVER. from last season (that’s commitment)

Watch it here:

These turnovers made their transition defense terrible, limited their own fast break opportunities, and cost them several games in the clutch. Therefore, Tyus Jones makes the starting 5 this year much more dangerous as all of the big three will be able to play off-ball more, put more energy towards defense, and get their opportunities to cook.

Rotation

This is where the Suns really did their work to improve the roster. Let me ask you; did you enjoy the Eric Gordon in a Suns uniform experience? Did Eric Gordon for that matter? Replacing Gordon’s streaky nature with a younger, more athletic, more efficient Grayson Allen is true addition by subtraction. As a potential 6th Man of the Year Candidate is a clear upgrade.

No player on the Suns received more ire than Drew Eubanks last year. He left us all longing for Landale, because while there were so many flashes from Eubanks it never seemed like he could get out of his own way. His performance made Jusuf Nurkic look like +/- god because the offense struggled when they lost the playmaking of Nurk. Plumlee is a great backup big, and his game mirrors the strengths that Nurk brings. He sets great screens, rebounds, can facilitate out of the short roll, and while he doesn’t rim run and block shots he puts up solid contests and can finish. Plus, we get the added bonus of being amused by the ugliest free throw in the game. This is an upgrade.

Royce O’Neale effectively ended Josh Okogie’s playing time as soon as he arrived. While not as hard nosed of a defender, he can hit the three, defend multiple positions, and is a smart player. Anytime, JO gets pushed down the depth chart, it means your team is getting better.

Be honest, you forgot about Jordan Goodwin didn’t you? We spent so much time clamoring for a point guard, that it was easy to forget we had one at one time because Goodwin was well…forgettable. Replacing him with the Count of Monte Ast/TO after watching bench units struggle all season to stay organized will be a relief.

Bol Bol is a push, and I’m excited to see him build on what he put on tape in his limited opportunities under Vogel.

Consider the rotation players upgraded!

End of Bench

This chart made me cranky and then made me feel better almost immediately. The left side of this chart is one of the most disappointing spread sheet cells in existence. 3 of these players didn’t make it past the deadline and Nassir Little was just waived, leaving Damion Lee as the only holdover from this group.

As I said, pushing JO down the depth chart is a win, because there was a time he was starting games for us regularly. Nonstop’s hustle and grit are to be admired but his deficits on offense are well documented and he struggled to stay on the court, but if I need a guy to lock someone up, annoy a guard or wing, crash the boards and be a f*** s*** up guy, JO as a 10-11 guy is an improvement.

Ryan Dunn and Oso are already creating buzz and clearly made Nassir Little expendable. Oso as a 4/5 who is athletic is more promising than Metu on potential alone.

Healthy Damion Lee is an upgrade over injured Damion Lee and the Suns will need his 3 point shooting as a way to compensate for EG’s 3 point volume.

And finally, poor Yuta Watanabe could be replaced by any of our 2 way players and I would consider it an upgrade as the Suns are finally embracing a G League system and the need to develop young talent on their roster.

Verdict

Total Starters Improved = 1

Total Rotation Improved = 4

Total End of Bench Improved = 5

I fully expect the 24-25 Suns to eclipse last year’s roster in wins, offensive rating, bench play, and certainly playoff wins.

Comparing this Roster to the 2022-23 Phoenix Suns

Now I want to be clear. This exercise will get people in their feelings. The moves that broke up the team that went to the finals are tough for fans to take, especially after the way our team disappointed. As a reminder, I’m not using the 64 win season because we were fresh off a finals run and we were all pretty unified about bringing that squad back and the season did not disappoint. But boy did the playoffs. We’re looking at this squad because there were questions about that roster that needed to be answered and ultimately were.

Starters

Woo boy. Here we go. This is not an exercise in salary cap hit, so lets just get the obvious out of the way. Nurk is a downgrade at center compared to Deandre Ayton, and we saw many of the positives about DA that were missing from Nurk’s game. DA is a damn god finisher, can shoot from the mid-range, and was a more versatile defender. While Nurk clearly gives a damn — and is much more physical — that contact often detracts from his game when he either seeks to draw contact and misses the bunny or commits a careless foul. I’d do the trade again, every time, but when it comes to skill, DA is a better player.

Kevin Durant is better at just about everything basketball-related than Cam Johnson and I love Cam Johnson. This is the most obvious upgrade on this list.

Now let me explain. The weird nature of the Suns lineups with the big three and the addition of Tyus Jones meant I had to move some players around. Based on the Olympics and what Bud said about the starters, it sure seems like Book is going to be our starting small forward. Well, I’m here to tell my Mikal stans that Devin Booker is a much better small forward. In fact, I’d argue that on day 1 of the regular season, Book is the best small forward in the league. Full stop. If Book shows even a portion of his Olympic defense, puts up more threes, cooks off ball more, and is efficient with a limited amount of Point Book minutes, he will be the reason the Suns go as far as they do.

Bradley Beal is not as good of a shooting guard as Book, but he’s a hell of a fall back, especially coming off his most efficient shooting season ever. His role being clarified in Year 2 may be the straw that stirs the Suns’ drink this year.

This is going to come across as sacrilege, but Tyus Jones is a better player than Chris Paul at this point when we consider age, injury history, and impact. Chris Paul is going to get one last gasp as a starter and I expect he will do well, but his shooting efficiency has taken a hit. I can’t get two facts out of my head about Tyus Jones: The Grizzlies were better when he started in place of Ja Morant. He was the most efficient point guard in the league last year…on the Wizards. It’s unfathomable to me that he managed to take care of the ball that well on a roster so devoid of talent. The Point God is the Point God and I would never say that CP3 doesn’t clear Tyus easily in terms of his career. But we watched our floor general go down or manage an injury in three straight post season runs and I do believe that it cost us. Tyus is an upgrade at this point in my opinion.

Rotation

Landry Shamet was not a good basketball player during his Suns tenure, but I shouldn’t speak ill of the dead. Let’s take a moment to remember the fallen.

Grayson will humbly try to fill his shoes.

While Eubanks may have clouded your memory about how good Jock Landale was (I missed him dearly), Plumlee is a far superior backup to both.

Royce and Torrey were honestly the hardest two players for me to decide between so I called it a tossup. Torrey is a rangier, more athletic wing. His dunks and fast breaks were delightful and I felt like we could have used him last year. Royce is a more versatile two way player, though not as big, and can hit threes from a variety of spots, where Torrey was usually relegated to the corner. I leaned Torrey initially, but Royce’s playmaking tipped it back to even for me.

Cameron Payne brought the vibes and the Haboob always was good for a spark off the bench. His grit was admirable but he lacked consistency. I thought it was a mistake to trade him and we ended up paying for it once Bradley Beal was injured to start the season. But Monte Morris is the very measure of consistent, steady play, and I don’t think Cam Payne’s frenetic energy would have been a good fit on this team. Monte clears Cam here.

Bol Bol provides you so many tantalizing glimpses and he proved many of us wrong, by playing his most meaningful minutes on a winning team we’d ever seen. His opportunity to build on his success will be a key to the season and pushes JO down the depth chart once again. From starter, to end of rotation, to end of bench guy. That’s a win for the Suns.

End of Bench

This section is intriguing to me. Josh Okogie is a clear upgrade from 22-23 Crowder, because it’s easy to be better than a guy who refuses to play. That’s an upgrade by default.

I miss Dario Saric a lot, and I was glad to see him play well for Golden State. His versatility and three-point shooting make this tough, but the sheer potential and defensive prowess of Ryan Dunn, paired with how hyped the Suns seem to be about him, has me grading him as an upgrade based on his ceiling as the best defender in the draft. If he can become bigger, better, and more effective Josh Okogie will be hard to keep off the floor.

Bismack and Oso are very different players, but Biyombo always had severe limitations to his game. I loved watching him on defense, but his offensive game, especially finishing left a lot to be desired. Oso actually give the Suns a young lob threat and a versatile player who can play at the 4 or 5 depending on lineup. I imagine he will find playing time as the season goes on based on matchups. Upgrade.

I’m more excited about any of our three 2 way players over Ish Wainwright, a great guy, but a painful three year experiment that ended the same way every season.

Damion Lee is the only push in this category.

Verdict

Total Starters Improved = 1

Total Rotation Improved = 4

Total End of Bench Improved = 4

I think the talent on this Suns is better than the last gasp of the Valley Suns, particularly when it comes to depth. Some may quibble about the starters and I think that’s a worthy debate, but the bench for the Valley Suns never had enough juice to get it over the line, particularly in a season marred by injury, hold outs, and tension.

So are we better?…Well that depends

There are two additional factors to consider when deciding if this roster has more promise than the previous two teams. I’m pretty certain the talent is superior but I wonder about:

Fit

The Valley Suns teams complemented each other so well and that was a known strength of those 3 seasons of Suns basketball. Their continuity was strong, the pieces fit well together, and they were a team that played for each other, until they didn’t. It remains to be seen how this current roster will fit together. While the players are better, will the overlap at guard and center be a weakness instead of a strength and will the lack of wing depth be more than efficient offense and steady playmaking can accout for.

Coaching

I think that Coach Bud is an upgrade over both Monty Williams and Frank Vogel. We experienced the heartbreak of Bud’s adjustments first hand and while Vogel did some really admirable work on the defensive side of the ball, he doesn’t have the two way coaching acumen that Mike does. If his coaching can make up for or disguise some of the fit issues, I anticipate this team could approach 55 win territory during the regular season and be prepared to make some noise in the playoffs.

Closing

I look forward to seeing how these comparisons look in hindsight at the end of the season. What do you think Suns fans? Any key comparisons you disagree with? have a perspective I didn’t cover? Let me know in the comments.